App performance for mobile games

21 posts (showing 1-20)
logtaga

Market Level 1Community Level 2
122 posts

I'm writing this under the assumption that mobile games are sponsored in the same manner as flash games (I had mine sponsored a few years back and I have to say you guys are a helpful bunch). If it's any different then I apologize for not reading thoroughly.

I'm creating a mobile game using adobe AIR (not my first, but the first one I plan to have sponsored here) and my experience with adobe AIR is a bit.. mixed: so far, it works perfectly well with iOS devices, but has varying performance across android devices. I have noticed that it works horribly with devices with intel processors but works comparably well on other devices.

So my question is, are sponsors easily turned off when they see that a mobile game works poorly on some devices? What if the app runs poorly when they test it? Thanks in advance for any feedback you can provide.

posted 2016-06-14T08:26:06-07:00
FGL_Dave

FGL AdminCommunity Level 4
319 posts

Monetizing mobile games is actually very different to the sponsorship model we popularized for flash games. Possibly due to the sheer volume of mobile games and apps around, publishers will want to see proven performance above anything else. But actually, by the time you've gotten that performance (i.e player installs, high ratings, good retention stats), a publisher in the traditional sense might not even be necessary or particularly helpful - at that point you might just be better tweaking your ads/monetization directly or using a service like our Enhance, Enhance+ or Mobile Platform to help you do so (unlike a traditional publishing deal which will take a significant cut of your revenue, thereby making it risky on your part, our services are proven and designed to increase the developer's revenue directly).

Either way, the most important 'first step' for mobile is to get your game finished and out in the wild. Players' reactions to your game will be very important, and this is where your original question comes in - it will matter how your game performs on multiple devices, as if it has seriously poor performance you could accumulate poor reviews from disgruntled players, thereby impacting your chances of getting the install/retention stats required to find a publisher (or monetize yourself). However, if the core game is enjoyable, has a hook, captures players' attention and keeps them wanting to play, it shouldn't be too much of a problem (unless it really does get in the way of enjoyment of the game). So as you can tell from that explanation, it basically depends on the game :D Helpful, I know!

posted 2016-06-14T10:11:58-07:00
FGL_Alexey

FGL AdminCommunity Level 2
74 posts

Air gives excellent performance everywhere if you use it together with Starling. IN my own pet project there are 1000 units+a bunch of enemies+other elements, and everything works at 60fps really well.

Also don't forget about optimisation.

posted 2016-06-15T06:09:13-07:00
Argentin

Market Level 5Community Level 8
1685 posts

On Jun 14, 2016, FGL_Dave said:

 at that point you might just be better tweaking your ads/monetization directly or using a service like our Enhance, Enhance+ or Mobile Platform 

So how to we get access to the Mobile Platform?

posted 2016-06-18T15:26:21-07:00
FGL_Dave

FGL AdminCommunity Level 4
319 posts

Argentin said:

On Jun 14, 2016, FGL_Dave said:

 at that point you might just be better tweaking your ads/monetization directly or using a service like our Enhance, Enhance+ or Mobile Platform 

So how to we get access to the Mobile Platform?

If your game has proven performance (installs) and retention figures, get in touch with us directly (send a PM) quoting these figures (eg % of initial active users at day 1, day 7 and day 30) and we will work with you directly to get you on board (or refer you to Enhance+ if it is more suitable). If you don't have performance data, you can start by Enhancing your app, getting it out into the wild and reaping the benefits of Enhance - then letting us know how it gets on!

posted 2016-06-18T15:54:04-07:00
Argentin

Market Level 5Community Level 8
1685 posts

This doesn't really make sense to me.

I understand the desire to only publish successful games as much as possible, but the whole point is to help each other out..

Why would I come to you AFTER I released the game?

If I take all the risks myself, and the game happens to be a success, why would I not take those numbers to other bigger publishers who have more people and resources. 

I'm honestly really confused by the logic of this whole process, but I guess you guys know your business model best

posted 2016-06-26T11:29:18-07:00
FGL_Chris

FGL AdminCommunity Level 9
1808 posts

The confusion here is probably around Enhance, Enhance+, and Mobile Platform.  We're going to write up more information and put it on our blog to clarify.  

Argentin, to your point, the whole reason for these different "tiers" is so that we can help everyone.  Enhance is for everyone. You can use it before releasing your game, during your release, and use it to improve your game after release. Not only is it aimed at making apps better by letting you easily add services, but we also have plans to improve installs to apps that have been Enhanced.

For Mobile Platform and Enhance+ I want to clarify something Dave said.  I think publishers can still be helpful and we actually work with a number of publishers that use Enhance+ and Mobile Platform.  Though it is true some developers also choose to forego working with a publisher.  The problem is that mobile publishers do not want to even look at an app unless it has performance data already.  So, this actually has nothing to do with "our" business model.. this is OTHER people's business model and we're merely trying to advise developers on how to best go about making their game successful.

Want a publisher? Even if you don't work with FGL guess what you need to do... publish your app and gather data.  

Want your best chance to get featured in an app store?  Guess what you need to do.. publish your app and gather data.

This has nothing to do with what FGL wants.. I would actually prefer it was like the days of Flash where you would wait to release a game.  But, you can try it youself... go to a publisher and ask them if they will publish your game.  They will most likely ignore you if you don't have data from users playing the game. Or, if you happen to convince them, you most likely will get some promise of "marketing spend" or some such thing like that.  And guess what they are doing... gathering data to see if the game is worth their time!  

To this question:

"If I take all the risks myself, and the game happens to be a success, why would I not take those numbers to other bigger publishers who have more people and resources."

That's the point!  Part of the beauty of Enhance is to hook you up with everything you need so that you can see all the important data that publishers want to see... in fact we're planning a sort of "publisher report card" so you can show your data off to publishers.  I will say, though, for most games we work with going through the Mobile Platform makes the most sense.  That's mainly because Indie games aren't built like the mega AAA games that most publishers are looking for.  But, if you make a game like that, we want to help you get that big publishing deal.  And, as I mentioned, many publishers choose to use Enhance (and even Mobile Platform and Enhance+) anyway.

So, for fear I've been a little long winded: tldr:

-Enhance is meant to help all levels of apps

-Enhance+ is like Enhance but beefed up.  A little more work, but better monetization and we'll even help with things like App Store Optimization and marketing.  In some cases even paid marketing.

-Mobile Platform is meant to help developers and publishers who have apps that show they could be successful with a boost to installs (FGL spends money to do this).  So, everything in Enhance+ but with guaranteed installs thrown at the game and a lot more "hands on" activity from FGL for marketing and monetization.

Hopefully this helps a little.  As I said, we'll also write up a blog post to help clarify.

posted 2016-06-26T23:07:12-07:00 | edited 2016-06-26T23:08:45-07:00
sandeep410

Market Level 1Community Level 3
181 posts

SO if i have a App i would have to actually publish it myself and make it sucessful for FGL publishers to be interested in it. This sounds so stupid. If my App is already sucessful why would i want to use a publisher anyway.

Whole point of going with publisher is that they would take care of everything from start when it comes to marketing.

Also whats criteria for Enhance+ how many downloads you need 1m+??

posted 2016-06-27T06:19:32-07:00
Argentin

Market Level 5Community Level 8
1685 posts

sandeep410 said:

SO if i have a App i would have to actually publish it myself and make it sucessful for FGL publishers to be interested in it. This sounds so stupid. If my App is already sucessful why would i want to use a publisher anyway.

You're confusing 2 different things here.

Your game might be the best in the world, and have everything working for it, but you can only market it for so long. Say you can get 3K-30K installs on your own.

That's peanuts compared to a good publisher who can get you installs in the order of millions. So when we say a game does good, that means it keeps a lot of players in the game. That however has nothing to do with the number of installs, which is equally as important to a game, as you can't have one without the other.

 this is OTHER people's business model and we're merely trying to advise developers on how to best go about making their game successful.

Although I understand you're merely copying the model that already works in the industry, if my KPI's were good, I wouldn't see any reason to talk to a single publisher, rather check all my options. 

Unless you put a ring on it, you can't have any expectations :)

posted 2016-06-27T07:56:06-07:00 | edited 2016-06-27T07:57:53-07:00
sandeep410

Market Level 1Community Level 3
181 posts

Argentin said:

sandeep410 said:

SO if i have a App i would have to actually publish it myself and make it sucessful for FGL publishers to be interested in it. This sounds so stupid. If my App is already sucessful why would i want to use a publisher anyway.

You're confusing 2 different things here.

Your game might be the best in the world, and have everything working for it, but you can only market it for so long. Say you can get 3K-30K installs on your own.

That's peanuts compared to a good publisher who can get you installs in the order of millions. So when we say a game does good, that means it keeps a lot of players in the game. That however has nothing to do with the number of installs, which is equally as important to a game, as you can't have one without the other.

 this is OTHER people's business model and we're merely trying to advise developers on how to best go about making their game successful.

Although I understand you're merely copying the model that already works in the industry, if my KPI's were good, I wouldn't see any reason to talk to a single publisher, rather check all my options. 

Unless you put a ring on it, you can't have any expectations :)

From my experience if your game gets 20k download then it will take care of itself and you will be able to get good downloads per day even without marketing as your game tends to rank above in most of stuff like search engines.

Problem is getting to that 20k downloads. This is where publishers should come in, in my opinion.

posted 2016-06-27T15:54:03-07:00
FGL_Chris

FGL AdminCommunity Level 9
1808 posts

Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like you need to have a successful game.  I merely mean you just have to release it so you can gather data.

Sometimes as few as 500 installs is all it needs to see if a game is going to do well.  Also, of course if your game does gangbusters by itself you would do things differently than if your game does "pretty well."  By the way, that's where our focus is on because that's where most apps (every app, in fact, that we've worked with) fall.  When you see your retention is "pretty good" we can help (or publishers can help) get you over the hump to "really good".  Then, yes, pump in users.  And I want to say that you have to KEEP getting users if you want to keep monetizing a game.  Even if you get a feature or some other bump of installs, yes that's great but it won't keep that level of installs for long.  We have that challenge with every game we work with and that's WITH the ability to cross promote and spend money on advertising.

posted 2016-06-28T08:41:36-07:00
Argentin

Market Level 5Community Level 8
1685 posts

sandeep410 said:

From my experience if your game gets 20k download then it will take care of itself and you will be able to get good downloads per day even without marketing as your game tends to rank above in most of stuff like search engines.

Problem is getting to that 20k downloads. This is where publishers should come in, in my opinion.

As Chris said as well, it depends if you want to have a good game or a great one.

It boils down to what you're willing to settle for, and if 20k installs is enough for, that's great,although I don't see why you wouldn't want the extra traffic

posted 2016-06-28T09:30:48-07:00
sandeep410

Market Level 1Community Level 3
181 posts

Wats data that you guys want. And how do you get this data??

posted 2016-06-28T12:17:30-07:00
Argentin

Market Level 5Community Level 8
1685 posts

KPI's are Key Performance Indicators, that pretty much tell you how addictive your game is.

You basically count all the players you get in a day, then see how many stick for day 2, then day 7 then day 30.

So you would get something like:

1st Day - 100%

2nd Day - 40%

7th Day - 15%

30th day - 5%

That would mean, that out of all the people that played your game, only 5% of them stuck for a whole month, and those are the people that actually generate revenue for you. I'm not exactly sure what retention percentage your app needs, but I'm sure each publisher has some sort of standard.

posted 2016-06-28T12:39:12-07:00
pinoygamegeek

Market Level 4Community Level 4
366 posts

sandeep410 said:

Wats data that you guys want. And how do you get this data??

App installs, user retention, daily active users etc. Enhance has the tool to gather data (check it on the enhance page they use flurry and google). That's why fgl wants us indie/small publishers to use Enhance. Whatever or how small is the game. But mobile game is a hit or miss as I heard from someone. There are small games that is blockbuster and there are big games that is a flop.

Enhance is like "hey use me and lets see how your game performs, Oh your game is doing good its time to Enhance+ the game.

But unless a mobile game is given a promotion on day one, many doesn't get install that they deserve. So fgl should push for the Enhance to have the cross promotion asap :P

posted 2016-06-28T12:47:01-07:00
FGL_Dave

FGL AdminCommunity Level 4
319 posts

pinoygamegeek said:

But unless a mobile game is given a promotion on day one, many doesn't get install that they deserve. So fgl should push for the Enhance to have the cross promotion asap :P

One of the reasons the mobile industry is the way it is is due to oversaturation; there are so many apps being created now (and submitted to publishers) that it's getting more and more difficult to find the 'diamonds in the rough', so the industry uses the Key Performance Indicators that Argentin is talking about. Unfortunately Enhance is no different here; if we were to cross promote every app that went through Enhance to help give them all a chance, we'd run into the oversaturation problem too. That's one reason we need the tiered approach, among others of course.

posted 2016-06-28T13:55:50-07:00
FGL_Alexey

FGL AdminCommunity Level 2
74 posts

There is an ambiguity in the word "performance". While the theme initially started discussing "performance" as fps, it's turned into money performance discussion. That's good :) And here's what I'll tell you.

Today I've attended Rovio's talk at White Nights conference. And here's what Matthew Wilson said:

So, it's common among the publishers now to ask data of the independently released game first, and then make a decision, is it worth to take a game to the publishing.

What is special about FGL is that while providing with Enhance+ all the options current publishers provide (bringing more players, better monetization, professional advice on game tweaks), we give more freedom to the developer. You can still keep the game on your account and everyone will know the author of such a great title is you.

posted 2016-06-28T20:54:05-07:00
FGL_Chris

FGL AdminCommunity Level 9
1808 posts

Also I'd like to add to Dave and Alexey's points:

- we do have ideas to help with cross promotion and getting installs in general.  We agree that one of the biggest hurdles right now is just getting your first 1,000 installs or so to get a big enough sample size of users.  We want to provide tools to help here

- We actually work with Rovio and have sent games their way in the past.   What Alexey shows here is just further validation that we're following the market to help serve the market, not the other way around.   All of our innovations are around making it easier for developers to get there.  

- I was about to do another explanation about Enhance vs Enhance+ vs Mobile Platform, but instead I'll work on that blog post about it that I talked about so I don't have to keep repeating everything :) But pinoygamegeek distilled the hierarchy pretty well.  You should start with Enhance and from there you and we would be able to know if it makes sense to move up to Enhance+ or Mobile Platform.  I want to clarify, though, that no "tier" is better than the other, it's just about what makes the most sense. Enhance by itself may be all you need.  But if you have a game with potential but can't seem to get users, Mobile Platform may make more sense.

posted 2016-06-30T18:58:07-07:00
sandeep410

Market Level 1Community Level 3
181 posts

Getting 1000 installs is the main part which is very difficult in google play but easy for APP store.

Can data from appstore be used for google play as well or do you guys consider separate data for both platforms??

posted 2016-07-01T08:18:32-07:00
therabbitwindfall

Market Level 0Community Level 0
3 posts

On Jun 14, 2016, logtaga said:

I have noticed that it works horribly with devices with intel processors but works comparably well on other devices.

If your app works bad on Intel x86 CPU's Android and well on ARM Android - solution is simplest. Compile it for x86 separately. Adobe AIR supports this.

On developer's Goole Play account just upload two different APK's. This is normally for Google.

posted 2016-07-20T12:23:25-07:00